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And I have been honored to fulfill them and honored to invite them. Chairman Leahy. As my last question, in some of the testimony this morning there has actually been a recommendation that, of program, just with all the hundreds of billions, trillions of bucks all set to spend, you ought to simply go somewhere else.


Stenger. I would tell you that in this environment the ability to raise funding for the important things we are doing would have-- it is impossible to do so in a manner that would certainly enable us as properly and as promptly develop the important things we have actually done. You can obtain cash if you have got half down.


I could have borrowed half of that if I had the $12 million in cash money to put up. Everyone knows that, yes, financial institutions have money to lending as long as you have got fifty percent of it in your pocket before you ask for the other half. That is not how organization functions nowadays.

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Senator Grassley. Legislator Grassley. I desire to confess that we only have anecdotal information, however I would like to ask you to what level you have to go or do go to make sure that the centers make certain that the investments do not develop jobs for people below illegally.


Mr. Stenger. We have actually hired-- as I claimed, at the Optimal we had 550 building and construction workers on our project.


They are composed of 10, 15, 20, 30 workers. They are from our local areas. They are Vermonters. They are benefiting directly from the financial investment. So we are a hands-on facility. I know the workers, I understand their households, and we have actually been able to utilize-- via these last 3 years of terrible economic chaos, we have actually had the ability to employ virtually every building employee in our region and the surrounding regions.

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citizens. They live in the location. Their families exist. They are spent in the neighborhoods, and they are all united state employees. Legislator Grassley. You do not have to use e-verify, however I wish to understand whether you do. Mr. Stenger. We do. Senator Grassley. You do.


Thank you. Mr. North, along the exact same lines of the question I asked him, has your research shown instances other-- and I only provided one instance, so I intend to admit that and be accountable concerning it-- of centers employing undocumented people? Mr. North. That kind of data is really hard to get from USCIS, and I need to claim that what we do learn about much of the inner features of that company regarding this program is concerned relates to cases in which the team has stated no to an application of some kind and after that the local center or the individual entrepreneur has gone to the Administrative Appeals Workplace-- which is part of the firm-- and there we obtain documents, we obtain a hearing officer telling us what is going on because certain instance.




This is a poor application." So there is an amount of bad applications available, but only when that procedure obtains prior to an administrative legislation court do we see much in the means of information. Now, there was one instance that you stated, and let me simply elaborate on that a little bit.

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Mr - EB5 Regional Center Program. North. The dairy products ranch had declared 17 workers, and they obtained into it, and the judge discovered that 16 of them were illegals.


Okay. I am mosting likely to ask different inquiries of each of the 3 of you, yet it takes care of this one issue. As I said in my opening declaration, I am worried regarding the possible loophole that allows capitalists to withdraw their financial investment in local centers after receiving their permit.


Mr. Divine. I would state that most of the capitalists, if you asked them what are their goals, they would certainly claim, "I desire to get a copyright, and I want to keep it.


If I put my cash in a hotel development-- Senator Grassley. Can I think then that you are saying that there does not need to be any changes made because respect? Mr. Divine. I do not believe so. Legislator Grassley. Okay. Allow me ask Mr. read more Stenger, is it usual for an investor in your experience to withdraw his/her investment promptly after receiving an environment-friendly card? Mr.

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Senator, no. Our programs need that the investor be invested for a minimum of 5 years and be paid back just if business remains in a setting to do so at the end of that time. So we have the advantage of the funding to create the organization, obtain it running, make it effective, guarantee that the jobs will certainly be created and preserved, and afterwards only if business succeeds will certainly there be an exit strategy for the financier.